Episode 46: Authentic founder-led outbound that works

[00:00:00]

Peter Ahn: Welcome to Decoding Sales, a podcast where an engineer. That's Alex, Allain, and a salesperson. That's me, Peter, on talk about the art and science of sales as it relates to business and in life. Today I am repurposing one of the Ask Me Anything sessions that I hosted on the Say Wise platform with, Mason Fuerst, the founder of a startup called Motiv, which helps screen and filter for candidates using really accurate ai.

. Mason and I connected on LinkedIn. He reached out to me after seeing a YouTube video of mine, and we immediately hit it off when we had an intro call and we've remained in touch since then. He's one of the most genuine. Authentic founders I've come across, and he's such a sponge when it , comes to learning the craft of sales.

, And so he and I have chatted a couple times. [00:01:00] He recently, as of a few months ago on LinkedIn, posted something about an outbound strategy working for him really well, and so. I reached out and asked him, Hey, what was involved with this? He sent me the guide where he documented the steps for how he's done, authentic founder-led outbound, and because it resonated with me his approach .

I asked if we could do a virtual session where I interviewed him on the entire process. And so this conversation is the output of that. If you like what you hear, and if you want a copy of that founder led. Outbound guide. Please reach out to either myself or Mason on LinkedIn. We will put our profiles in the show notes and , we'd be happy to send over the PDF, , where there's a ton of golden nuggets as to how you can do outbound authentically if you're a founder.

So without further ado, let's jump into the Ask Me Anything session. There's a little bit of an intro because I'm repurposing this, so some [00:02:00] of this might be a repeat, but enjoy the show and, and let U.S know what you think.

 . Why don't we get started? I know everybody's time is very valuable, so. Um, we'll let people roll in, but, um, we'll do a quick round of intros first. So for those of you who don't know me, my name's Peter on, I'm a tech sales performance coach.

I focus a lot on mentalities for founder-led sales. Um, I, I talk a lot about what does it actually mean to do authentic, genuine sales and in a world that's so noisy, a lot of my founders are, are . Former engineers, product designers, product managers who haven't done the role, uh, formally. And so I try and teach phraseology and mentalities to, to help those folks show up in a confident manner while making sure their product differentiators are, are really, really compelling to enterprise buyers specifically.

And so. Mason, I'll, I'll intro him now. He and I have been virtual friends for a while, probably like seven, eight months at this point. I think we met last [00:03:00] year and he saw a video of mine where I was talking about this concept of sales and doing it a different way in the modern era. And so he graciously reached out.

We started having a conversation. We got on a quick 30 minute call. It was one of the most energizing calls I've had because I could tell Mason also wanted to show up differently within, , the sales world. And so today he actually has a really compelling startup called Motiv. And Motiv uses AI to help recruiting teams identify the most impactful candidates for jobs in literally less than 60 seconds.

And he's building this rocket ship as we speak, but he's also graciously, , devoted an hour of his time to, to chat with me and, and with you all a little bit more about Mason. So he graduated from Northwood University with two degrees marketing and franchise management. , And so. , He wore multiple hats and, and built a drop shipping store that helped pay for some of his tuition.

So this grit and hustle has been true to his DNA [00:04:00] ever since school. And, , outside of work, Mason enjoys sports, family and, and also good food just like me. We'll have to get some Korean barbecue together sometime Mason. Hopefully you're not a vegetarian, so, so basic. With that, why don't we just start with you like, what is Motiv, how did you come up with the idea?

Let's just, um, educate our audience on that first so that they can get to know you. 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, definitely. And, and thank you so much again, Peter, for having me. Of course. It's, it's such an honor to be on a call for you and to obviously look at, you know, U.S getting on a call seven, eight months ago. And at the time I wasn't even building a startup.

And here we are today where it's completely different, but it's crazy to come up. You definitely changed my approach to authentic sales and. I'm excited to kind of share what I've been doing with the audience here. But really what Motiv is in, in like a 20,000 foot view is it's really a personal recruiting assistant and its main responsibility is to help you identify the most impactful candidates for your jobs.[00:05:00]

And really what that comes down to is by doing a lot of the grunt work that comes with having to screen and source people. So like reviewing hundreds of different job applications for every one of your posts, or reviewing millions of people on LinkedIn. But really the secret sauce comes down to like how we actually identify these impactful candidates. And I get this question all the time.

I. Really what we've trained our AI to do is to look at a candidate's track record and really compress at a very deep level what information was found about this individual, why it's relevant to your job, and then what sort of impact they could have if you decided to move forward with 'em on an interview or you know, even decided to hire them.

So that's just a little bit of hindsight about the product, but you know, it's been. An exciting journey for me thus far. And obviously continuing to learn each and every day, which is the name of the game. Whether you're, you know, building a startup or not. 

Peter Ahn: Amazing. So, so why recruiting? Like why get into that space?

Right. What was the genesis of that? And you know, you [00:06:00] started to talk about your differentiators. You know, I do feel like there's a lot of candidates for nervous right now. 'cause the job market isn't great in tech specifically. And so, you know, yeah. What was your personal interest in getting into the recruiting game and helping recruiters?

Mason Fuerst: I tell you what, recruiting is not a sexy space. And so it's, uh, it's something that I enjoy though. And honestly, I didn't come into recruiting by chance. I honestly started this whole journey coming outta college. I graduated in 2020. Mm-hmm. Pandemic was just. It was rapid wildfire, and it took me about six to seven months to get my first job, and I was super depressed throughout the process, but I got that job and then a year and a half into my first role, you know, I ended up getting laid off just due to budget cuts, and so I was back on the market again.

I ended up getting my second job, and then when I got that job, it's really where I started to kind of get integrated a little bit with the recruiting process. And it was so funny because as a candidate, you're reaching out to different recruiters and not getting much response. Mm-hmm. And going like, [00:07:00] what the hell?

You know, nobody's responding back to me. Yep. You know, why am I getting ghosted? But it wasn't until I was in that role where I started working with some recruiters and I started to see. All the things that they had to do, the volume of applicants that they were reviewing, getting on calls, all the onboarding paperwork.

And I started to understand I am just one fish in the sea of many other applicants Sure. Who are applying for the same jobs. And it's no wonder why they can't get back to me 'cause they don't have the time to. So that was really the genesis of starting with recruiting and obviously building this screening and sourcing tool that I have is when it comes to screening and sourcing people, that ends up taking majority of the time when it comes to the hiring process.

So how can really, we really expedite the process, but do it in a manner where those candidates that really have the good track record that's gonna correlate to success, they're the ones that ended up. You know, being the ones that recruiters seeing and moving forward with. You know, I think the cool thing is, is that, [00:08:00] you know, a lot of people have different, like, you know, stereotypes when it comes to different HR tools and like.

Our A, our a TS systems, our HR tools, you know, they're not showing me, and I think that's not true. Every recruiter is actually reviewing each and every one of the candidates. But it's just a matter of how can we actually allow, you know, candidates that do have a really good track record, really good experience and skills to get elevated and be seen.

Yep. And we obviously want to do that. So really good 

Peter Ahn: stuff. Amazing. Amazing. Um, yeah, I can't wait to talk more about it in the context of your sales process too. . Um, well let's get to the fun stuff now, Mason. . So let's start with, before we get to Brian's question, how did you start your sales journey? Like, let's specifically talk about, I'm sure before you got to the outbound process that worked, which we'll get to in a little bit.

There are a lot that didn't work, I'm assuming. So what were you trying in the beginning days of Motiv, um, you know, before you hit that golden nugget. [00:09:00]

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, it's a great question. My sales journey really started when I was working in enterprises. Uh, really is kind of like an intern and even early on into my, my professional career.

And I think that. The thing with sales is I had to completely pivot and actually change my approach and mindset because what I'd learned in the enterprise did not work in the startup. When I was working in enterprise, a lot of the sales cycle I was dealing with large teams, um, long processing times, actually get a deal done.

Negotiations were done over price. And then when you actually switch to startup sales, you tend to realize, you know, how important brand recognition and track record are, which a lot of enterprises are going to have. Mm-hmm. And it ends up making deals get done faster, and obviously allowing you to get more deals.

Versus in a startup, you're trying to convince the world not only should they really kind of care about what you're doing, but that they should also use it and buy it. So really what I was doing in the initial part of my sales journey [00:10:00] was a lot of what I was doing in the enterprise, which is really just mass reaching out to people cold by email.

Right. Or trying to get on cold calls with them. And the problem with that is, is that I had a volume approach. Mm-hmm. Which is, is that the more messages I spent I send out, you know, the higher likelihood that I'm gonna get a chance at actually getting a response. Right? 

Yep. 

Mason Fuerst: And I did get a few responses, but I noticed that.

When I would get those responses, people were a little bit confused. Um, maybe it wasn't the right buyer. Um, I really wasn't personalizing and targeting my outreach as I should. And what happened was, is that when I'd eventually get on calls, either the prospect didn't have a need for what I was doing, or you know, ultimately they just thought it was something completely different.

Mm. And so I really wasn't putting myself in the shoes of the customer, which was a lot of the issue in this. I think as a founder, especially when you're starting a company for the first time, you can get caught up in the efficiency game, which [00:11:00] is, I have to wear multiple hats and there's different things that I need to do in order to make my startup go.

Sure. And so I'm gonna be as efficient as possible with my sales approach to try to get as many leads in the door to have calls. But what you end up realizing is that sales is the most important part of this. And the process when you're building a startup and that that is the time that you should really be spending and actually personalizing your messages, really getting to know.

The prospects that you're dealing with. Mm-hmm. And then ensuring that you problem can actually solve their issues. What I was doing before wasn't actually ensuring that it was gonna solve their deep pain points, and that was something that I obviously needed to switch. And I think that, you know, that pivotal moment for me was just being open minded to looking for advice.

And obviously I had a, I came across your EO video. Really resonated with it. And as I was starting to kind of formulate the idea of building my own startup, wanting to at least set myself on a good track to obviously, you know, capitalize on it [00:12:00] down the road. So I feel like I'm a lot better because of it, but you know, I can't tell you how many other people I've talked to or having to make that, you know, pivot and that mindset shift Sure.

Is one of the toughest things. To do because you have to unlearn everything that you've already learned about sales and say, I'm gonna take a different approach, and how do I do that? 

Peter Ahn: I love that. So I guess you're kind of answering Brian Kim's question, which is cold outreach versus personalized LinkedIn request messages.

So I I, it feels like you're heavily in the camp of. Start with the manual work and personalize and get to know your prospects even though it takes a little bit more time. So can you kind of, let's start to get into your playbook because a lot of people are asking about that, um, by the way, yeah. For the playbook.

Mason has like a four to five page PDF that he is more than happy to send. He had a post that went actually viral, what was this, like a month and a half ago, two months ago now? Um, month ago. A month ago. So you could reach out to him, connect with him, [00:13:00] comment on that post, and he will send you this playbook.

He's about to verbally walk through as well 'cause we can't share his screen. Um. And so start to walk. First of all, do you agree like Brian, Kim, hopefully you got the answer, like, it seems like Mason, you, you're in the camp of personalizing. Maybe before we go into the playbook, how many personalized like messages were you sending on LinkedIn a day?

Right? Because like you said, founders still want to have that efficiency metric, I think, and they're like, is it five, is it 10? Is it 30? Like how many hours were you spending doing this initially and, and maybe even now. 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, like before, I was used a lot utilizing a lot of the AI tools in order to help improve the efficiency that I was doing with outreach.

Right. And I think that what tends to happen though is that when one gets on the bandwagon, then everybody gets on the bandwagon. Totally. And so everybody's using AI tools today. To help try to personalize their outreach as much as possible. But you know, if you can really look at people's messages, you can tell that they're AI generated.

Peter Ahn: A hundred [00:14:00] percent. 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah. Right? And and there's ways that you kind of know in the tonality and whatnot, and I'm not saying that there's anything bad with using AI tools, it's just not the approach that I take today. Right. So what I was doing before is really utilizing those AI tools, mass sending out, you know, a huge volume of emails.

But what I ended up realizing is, is that you can go through as many contacts as possible, but you end up realizing how much like waste you're actually putting out there, right? When you're not coming across authentic from the very beginning, then people will understand that. They recognize it and then they realize that you're just out to get something.

Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: Where I think what's important, something that I've learned from you is to really be able to get to know the person, build a rapport first, give them something of value, and then ultimately if something ends up working out, meaning that if they do have your problem at a very deep level and you have the ability to solve it, then ultimately then there's a relationship there.

Peter Ahn: Totally. 

Mason Fuerst: Um. So let, let me talk a little bit [00:15:00] about like personalization and just the way that I think about all this. Yes. Like myself, and actually 

Peter Ahn: before you do that, Mason, I'm gonna read a quote for those in the audience. So he had somebody say, that was certainly the most personalized LinkedIn message that I've seen in 20 years.

Nice job. Got my attention. So I, with that as a preview, what were you doing? Like, let's get into the tactical nitty gritty, mm-hmm. What were you doing to get that kind of attention? I know it's a multi-step process, so what was step one? 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah. I think the first step for for anybody is to really change your approach, and you have to be open-minded to the fact that personalized outreach is gonna take more time, and that it's gonna seem tougher in the beginning, but ultimately it'll get easier the more and more that you do it.

Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: Right. Um, so for me it was changing that perspective and saying, you know what? I'm gonna build relationships with people and I'm gonna do as much as I can to really personalize these messages. And I would argue that it's better to send, let's say that, you know, normally on a day-to-day, let's say that you send out, you know, 50 [00:16:00] messages.

I would argue that it's more important to send out 10 highly personalized messages every day. Versus 50 cold mass, you know, emails or messages that really aren't applicable to anybody. It may seem like you're playing the volume game and that you're getting a lot done, but remember, productivity is completely different than busyness, right?

You can be busy, but not productive, and so. The way that I actually formulated this is, is that number one, I want to just build a rapport with somebody. Mm-hmm. I want to get to know them, and I wanna make sure that there's some similarities and some common interests between me and whoever I'm reaching out to.

So really, my first approach is number one, I. Are you targeting the right person? Is it your ICP? And you have to deeply know whether or not they are your ICP. Are they the right company? Is it of the right size, the right industry? Are they the decision maker? Right? Do they have any commonalities with you?

I think some of the things that I look at in terms of common commonalities are like, number one, [00:17:00] did they go to a similar school? Did they go to the same school as I did? Have they been to similar events as I have? Maybe they worked in a previous company that I once worked in myself. Those are some things that you can at least put in your initial message, or maybe they have interest within their LinkedIn profile, like certain authors, you know, you know Brene Brown or you know, bill Gates or Steve Jobs, or whatever the case may be.

If you have some commonalities and interests, you can use that in your first message, and I really recommend people to not pitch on the first message. There are so many people that are pitch slapping right off the gate saying, you know, here's what I do, here's what I can offer. You know, I see saw that you did this.

I think that is the wrong approach because you're basically telling the person that all you care about is getting something. So what do they get out of it? And you have to put yourself in the mindset of the customer, and they're always asking, what's in it for me? Why should I care? 

Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: Right. So use the, the, [00:18:00] the who, what, and why approach.

Who are you reaching out to? Is it the right person? What do you have in common with them? And then why are you relevant or what is what you're doing relevant to them? Right? So that's kind of the, the process that I use be as personalized as possible in that first message. But. Make it short. 

Yeah. 

Mason Fuerst: I kind of like to talk in like millennial terms, right.

So, you know, when you're texting people, like you don't send these paragraphs to texts. 

Peter Ahn: Yeah. It's, it's funny how I still see that a ton on LinkedIn where there's like a subject line and like three paragraphs written on, on a quote message. Like, never do that. Yeah. Completely agree. No, never. And, and listen to this by, oh, sorry, I, I want to actually, can I read one of your messages that's in the PDF actually Totally.

So here, 'cause one of, one of the things that Mason says is also write like you speak. Because it's important to be able to start building that rapport. And um, so Mason's, one of his first [00:19:00] messages is Chris, what's up man? Dude, I freaking love the Truet Kathy quote you wrote in your bio, literally 100% spot on.

You ever read the book, covert Cows by their former CMO, Steve Robinson? So that's like, you know, how you speak, right? Like very conversational. Um, it's not necessarily how I speak, so sorry if I sounded a little awkward saying that basic, but, um, he was actually like mentioning something that is deep within the archives of this, of this person.

Chris, you actually took the time to pick out something in their bio and I think people resonate with that. It's fascinating, right? Like I've recorded 44 podcasts, very rarely, maybe less than 1% of the time when people reach out about my podcast, do they actually pick out something that I said in my podcast?

Like, imagine that, right? So I think it's that level of like second layer, third layer, like personalization that people really do respond to and it's clearly work for you. Right? [00:20:00] So, sorry, like I, I just wanted to inter interject with that example 'cause I think it like really kind of. It, it paints the picture of how this personalization plus like being yourself plays through in an actual message.

Mason Fuerst: I agree wholeheartedly. I think at the end of the day, you just have to be yourself. And I think that everybody looks at sales as a B2B relationship and it's really a P two P relationship. It's people to people you know, and if you really think about it like. Peter, you've dealt with, you know, people at NBC and you know, these large enterprise companies, and a lot of people may think like, okay, I'm doing a deal with NBC, you're really doing the deal with the person who works at NBC.

Totally. So, number one, why can they trust you? Have you built a rapport enough with them for them to be able to open up? And I think that, you know, Tony Robbins talks a lot about this, where he talks about, you know, changing the physiology of the person. And you have to realize that people are emotional creatures.

You have to put them. In a state where they feel comfortable at buying, and if they don't trust [00:21:00] you, then why are they gonna end up doing the deal in the first place? Maybe it solves their issue, but you think about it, you want to give yourself the best possible chance to close the deal. Totally build a relationship with somebody, right?

Have that rapport right off the get-go, and if they feel comfortable enough. They'll probably more than likely end up doing a deal if everything else ends up lining up. So when I end up reaching out to people, usually I'll go into the depths and try to find that second and third layer that people aren't, you know, initially talking about.

Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: You want someone link someone's LinkedIn and see that they've worked at Microsoft or Google or whatnot and say, Hey, you know, really cool that you worked at Google. Has there been something that they've done at Google that was really interesting to you? Maybe a project that they accomplished or something that they did that really stood out to you that you can kind of talk about or reference to your own life?

Bring that up. And then I would say what I would do from there is, you know, just have a general conversation with them. I would say something like, Hey [00:22:00] Peter, you know, saw your EO video on YouTube man really resonated with your authentic sales approach. Um, here's what I think, um, what I really took away from it, you know, totally would love to, would love to kind of dive into this a little bit deeper and, you know, get your thoughts around it.

Next thing you know, you're responding to me, you're elaborating on it, you're having a general conversation with someone. No different than what you would texting. Totally. Right? And then what happens is that you've built a rapport. Right then and there. And that's what people aren't doing is they don't wanna go and actually build a rapport with people and then get to the point to where, okay, when we can actually talk about the product that they're in a position now that they trust me.

Peter Ahn: Yep. Yep. No, no, I remember that about you reaching out. You actually like referenced very specific things in the video, which compelled me to get on a call. Right. And, and talk about sales. Um, so let's start talking about, I'm gonna mark this as answered because the second step I think of. That playbook is you have to then start to transition [00:23:00] to a pitch, right?

Because like mm-hmm. You're not there just to build rapport, right? You're also there to, you know, try and talk about Motiv. So tell U.S about that. Like how do you transition from like, Hey, I read your bio and this was really compelling to, hey, now I want to talk about Motiv. So. Let's start talking about that and I can also, I have the PDF so I could read the message, but I want to hear you talk about it first.

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, totally. I think it's one of the most common questions that I've gotten since I released that playbook is like, how do you effectively transition into 

it? Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: What I will say first and foremost is, is that if the opportunity does not present itself, you know, on the first, you know, back and forth messages that don't push it.

At the end of the day, what you want to be able to do is, number one, build that rapport, but secondly, be in a position to ask, you know them a question or to talk about your product. Yep. And you really don't want to have to diminish that, you know, by having to close on the first try. A lot of [00:24:00] people are trying to close and get someone on a call right away.

So don't feel pressure that you have to do it immediately. Usually, a lot of the times deals are done on the second, the third, the fourth, maybe even the fifth follow up, right? So that's what's important to note when you actually transition to talking about your product. I'd argue that it's important to start with a question.

Don't wanna assume anything about somebody, right? You can look at someone's, you know, LinkedIn profile, website, whatever the case may be, and say, Hey, you know, I saw that you guys are doing X, Y, Z, you know, you might benefit from this. Or hey, saw that you guys have, you know, an old website. You know, we do stuff for website.

What you don't want to do is assume anything. Maybe they're happy with their website, maybe they're not, you know, maybe they actually like the platform that they're using. Maybe they don't, don't assume anything. Mm-hmm. But what I would do is start with a question. Hey, I saw that you guys are doing x. How is that?

You know what? What's your thoughts on it? 

Mm-hmm. Is 

Mason Fuerst: there any pain points around it? [00:25:00] Open them up to actually talking about whatever it is that you actually want to talk about, and really start to prospect and understand, do they have my problem and do they have it at a deep enough need? And people will open up if they trust you.

And I've had it before where people have been like. And I'm in the recruiting space, so people have been like, oh my gosh, Mason, you know, I'm dealing with 10 open positions right now. I'm a team of three recruiters. I'm drowning right 

now. Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: Right. And it's about asking questions first and allowing them to open up, and once they start opening up, then start transitioning to your product and being like, oh wow.

I mean, that sounds like, like, it sounds like you're absolutely drowning. Your head's underwater. You know, here's what I do, you know, I noticed that you guys are doing this. You know, would be open to a conversation if it's something that you would find value in, right? I think that's important. Um, secondly as well, if they don't have your problem, don't be afraid to admit that.

And then put them in a better [00:26:00] position or point them in a good direction. I see a lot of people that don't want to advise people as to like, Hey, um, unfortunately it doesn't sound like you have my problem. You know, here's what I would do. I think that's something that I've gotten more accustomed to doing Yeah.

Is that if somebody does have a problem, I'm willing to reference them to another tool or something else. It doesn't have to be in my same space. Sure. But something else that they could benefit from. Right. And I think that goes a long way with people. 'cause they know that you're not just in it to get the deal, you're actually in it to help them.

Um, the biggest thing that I think that has actually resonated with people from the document is actually my approach to following up via video. And I think what I've always tried to do in the personalization and what I would recommend people do is to not just send an initial message and have that be the cutoff point for personalization.

Totally. Always take the time to personalize your messages. Yeah. One of the things, by the way, sorry, Mason, one 

Peter Ahn: thing I want to read the note. Yeah. 'cause [00:27:00] I, the video is a whole nother topic in and of itself and I want to get to it. But the note, um, that you sent or like that, that's in the PDF is by the way.

This is like transitioning to your pitch, but to your point, it starts with a question. You say, by the way, major props on scaling up the team. I saw you guys are hiring like 40 plus jobs right now, which is literally rocket ship level growth. And by the way, right now is rn, he doesn't even spell it out like, you know, texting, um, style.

How have you been able to juggle it all or is it pretty nuts? To be honest, and he is put, to be honest, is TBH. Mm-hmm. So again, like it keeps going down this like very. Um, conversational tone. And then what I love there is your research didn't stop with the autobiography or the bio quote. Right? Um, it continued like you actually went to their website and saw they had 40 plus jobs.

So I think that's like, I. Gold. Right? I think a lot of people don't do that. Um, so I, I just want to give props to that message. I think it's a really, [00:28:00] really strong message. Um, so, so now let's go on to the video actually, because you use that as a follow up tool, right? If folks don't necessarily respond to you.

Mm-hmm. Because that, I'm sure still happens where, where people ghost you. So let's start talking about that. Sorry to cut you off there, but I wanted to read that message. 

Mason Fuerst: No worries at all. No worries at all. I think that people are busy at the end of the day, and you have to understand that people aren't gonna respond all the time right away, like people have lives, people have kids, you know, they have other stuff that they're doing in their business.

So it may be that you need to follow up twice, three times, four times to actually get the conversation going. Again, something that's really helped me get the conversation going again is actually filming a 62nd video of myself. And really kind of putting a face to a name. And I think what tends to happen is, is that.

People are sending DM after dm after dm, but they don't realize, like on the other side of it, what is the customer actually thinking about in this process? Like would you wanna be getting like absolutely berated with constant DM all [00:29:00] the time? Probably not. So something that I've done is I've actually got my tripod.

I get on my iPhone, I film a 62nd video of myself. What I end up doing is I actually do more research on the company and the prospect. Maybe that there was a new update that just happened, that they got promoted, um, something happened with their company, maybe they went on a retreat, whatever the case may be.

I start the video with actually that new personalized piece of information that I ended up finding, like, Hey, saw that you guys were on a treat in Mexico last week. Hope it was an incredible time. It absolutely looked like a blast. You know, saw on your guys' LinkedIn page that you guys are, you know, hiring 10 jobs right now and I saw that every one of those jobs is getting over a hundred applicants.

Like I don't know how you're dealing with all that, but it's gotta be absolutely insane. Um, I. What I'm actually doing right now is I'm building this AI tool that really helps expedite the time of reviewing job applications, which really helps free up a lot of your time to focus on those higher [00:30:00] level activities.

If it's something that you think would really help you and your time, and obviously the company would love to jump on a call, no pressure at all, and just be willing to chat about it. But, uh, just let me know, you know? And then what ends up happening is that. By you sending a video, it tells the prospect, number one, that you care about them.

Peter Ahn: Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: Like to take the time to actually put together that video that you've done your research, and then secondly that you're genuinely interested in them and solving their problem. Right. And that goes a long way because if you think about it, you know a lot of people are saying, let's jump on a call.

Let's jump on a call. But the video almost is like a little bit of a call prior to the call. 

Peter Ahn: Totally. 

Mason Fuerst: 'cause they've already established a face to a name. You seem like a really genuine person. You care enough to actually film this video and like see the things that I'm doing and then ultimately you send that video out and that's really where I've gotten a lot of those messages where it's been like, this is the most personalized [00:31:00] outreach I've gotten in years.

I love that. 'cause everybody is sending DM after dm. 

Peter Ahn: Totally. 

Mason Fuerst: What is everybody willing to take the time to create a personalized video, specifically interested in your customer, and then send it over to them? And at the end of the day, I think that's what's important for people mm-hmm. Is, is that you have to be able to resonate with them and you have to do things that are different than what other people are doing.

And you know, people will ask me all the time, or you know, I thought this was ai, is this ai? Or you know, was this DM and ai? None of it's an ai. Right. It's all a personalized approach. And I think that people can authentically sense that. I think so. And when they do, then I think they're more open. To a conversation and obviously to try out or use your solution.

Peter Ahn: That's so powerful, man. , I mean, you're investing the time, right? Like sales is a two-way relationship. People want to know that you're willing to invest the time to get to know them, and this is like the purest form of that. Also, like how often do you even see [00:32:00] voice notes on LinkedIn? Like I've been telling my clients mm-hmm.

Like mm-hmm. If you're a little camera shy, first of all, try it anyways. Because even if the, I think you say this in your guide too, even if you stutter or stammer, like who cares, right? Like the idiosyncrasies make the engagement so special, right? Like, and that's something AI can't replicate, like the idiosyncratic reactions, the, the words that you use, like just the rawness of a video message is, is so, so powerful.

So I love that you're doing that. . Because yeah, you're really breaking through the noise. Like, I mean, actually out, out of the audience, I, I'm curious if you all have even received voice notes cold or videos cold. Like it just doesn't happen. Right. And, and pretty soon I'm sure we're gonna start to see avatar clones, like you could do that today, but there's still a way where I think people can catch on to whether or not this is natural or not.

So, so I love I love that you, you said that, , let's start talking about, , there's, there's a few more questions here I want to answer. . So, what [00:33:00] outbound tactic have you seen work well when it was used on you? Ha have people done this for you? Like the video or the voice notes, or can you think of any, or have you not received any good cold outbound 

Mason Fuerst: yet?

So, so I've had pros and cons. Uh, you know, the goods, the bads. Yeah. But I have not received an actual video outreach myself. Wow. Which is kind of, quite frankly, a little bit where neither have I, I have gotten. I've gotten voice notes, which I think are, you know, a positive sign that things are actually moving in a better direction, but it's not done all the time.

Mm-hmm. Usually I see a lot of the bad, more than I do the good, which is like a complete cold, you know, message. Maybe it's not even applicable to what I'm doing. Maybe they didn't take any time to actually research my company or things that I've done, and it's, at the end of the day, you have to think to yourself like, what is the person on the other side actually thinking about?

Like, as soon as I see that message. I'm either archiving it, deleting it, putting it in spam. You've already wasted a potential contact that you didn't even take the time to get to know them. And that's the end of the day. Like you [00:34:00] said, Peter, it's a relationship business. It's a P two P relationship business.

Peter Ahn: Totally. 

Mason Fuerst: How much can I actually get to understand my customer and walk in their shoes before we end up even doing a deal? That comes down to, you know, doing that outreach, that personalization, taking the time to ask them questions. And if something ends up working great, but if not, then it's no big deal.

Um, what I will say is, is that. In terms of, you know, things that I've actually seen that have actually worked on me is like just complete like personalization. Mm-hmm. Where they've like, you know, hit me at the right time or you know, it's a very short message. They've actually taken the time to understand what my business is and then just so happens that be looking.

At, uh, doing a deal. But I think that the best salespeople, they don't come across as if they're trying to do a deal. Right now. They're almost very casual in the sense of like, if it works, great, but if not, then no big deal. And I think that everybody's trying to close the deal. But at [00:35:00] the end of the day, if it's not the right prospect, then you know, ultimately you're gonna be wasting your time.

An individual that's probably not even gonna be ready to buy right now or maybe doesn't even have a need in the first place. Totally. So, yeah, I think, uh, I think that's what's been important on that front, but, um, something that I'm still trying to crack the code on and something that, you know, I'm. I haven't perfected as of yet is cold email.

I think that cold email is becoming very noisy. Yeah, and I like the personalization of LinkedIn because people can put a profile to a name and you have a little bit more of a rapport with an individual before you even reach out to them. With email, it's becoming very noisy. And it's hard to break through that.

So I'd love to try to figure out a way in order to actually get people's attention via email, much like what I'm doing, LinkedIn. 

Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: Um, it's obviously you're on LinkedIn because you can send a voice note, you can send a video, people can watch it right there. When you do it via email, they have to open a link, you know, watch the video.

It takes a little bit more steps. Totally. [00:36:00] Um, but ultimately, if there's a way to break through with that, you know, I'd love to, to kind of find a solution. But, um, for right now I'm sticking a lot with LinkedIn because that's been kind of my bread and butter so far. And, you know, I think the coolest thing is just hearing back those responses and even the people that I've sent the personalized outreach, PDF, to, you know, I've gotten some responses from people that have said like, you know, I had this one guy say that, uh, I sent him the PDF.

And, uh, within 24 hours he reached out to like four or five of the prospects that were kind of ghosting him. And he got back, you know, one or two responses, wows. Wow. And people like, oh my gosh, you know, so sorry. You know, I've been consumed with all this stuff and you know, let's jump on a call soon. But, you know, basically it just gives people the impression like, wow, like they took time to actually.

Put together this video and think about me and all this stuff. And you know, I think people are reciprocity creatures and as soon as they know that you want to help them, they're [00:37:00] willing to help you. 

Peter Ahn: Totally. And 

Mason Fuerst: that goes in both 

Peter Ahn: ways. I love that. Reciprocity creatures. That's something I haven't heard.

But it's, it's so true of human beings. Um, we had a question pop up, um, within the faded message bar. Um, somebody who said sales navigator or not. So, um, and this goes to one of the questions I posted, which is like, what are the platforms and tools you're leveraging? So let's first start, and I want to get back to the email thing 'cause I have some thoughts on that.

I haven't really had a client crack the code on that yet either, but. Um, I'm, I'm still hopeful and, and again, I have some thoughts, so I'll share, but before that, what are some of the platforms that you're using? Are you using Sales Navigator or is it plain old LinkedIn? Like what has been helpful for you?

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, sales Navigator is a good one. I would advise people to use that. I tend to use different things like Apollo. Um, I use a platform that one of my buddies end up creating. It's called Bird Dog. Oh, cool. Um, ultimately, yeah, ultimately I think what's important is, is that you not only identify the right [00:38:00] prospects, you know, like the decision makers, but you know, ultimately that you go one step beyond that, you know.

What my buddy actually built with BirdDog is, is it actually gives like triggers is if it's the right time to reach out to the prospect. Mm. Like number one. It could be like maybe their company just raised a new round, you know? And ultimately it's the right time to reach out, at least for me, on a hiring front.

Or maybe they talked about something that's in relation to the product that you're building, you know, in one of their posts. You know, I think that goes a layer deep. I. You know, beyond just Sales Navigator or Apollo. So sure, that's been really important for me. Um, the other part of their platform that I really like and I'm obviously not trying to boast 'em.

No, not at all. By the way, for Bird 

Peter Ahn: Dog, what is the um, URL? 'cause there's lots of different bird dog companies out there. 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, I'll have to drop the URL here. Okay, no worries. I'll drop the URL here in a bit. But, um, ultimately, like, yeah, like I said, sales navigator, Apollo Bird dog, those have been three that have been really good for me.

I [00:39:00] like the fact that they also are able to tell you, I. Which prospects are active on LinkedIn versus the ones that are not, because that's another element to the process. Sure. You may be reaching out to prospects that are just not active on LinkedIn. Sure. And so they're not even responding to you in the first place.

And you may be saying like, oh my gosh, you know, they just ignoring me. They, they might not even be active on LinkedIn. And I've gotten people that have responded back to me saying like. Hey, you know, um, first time that I've been on LinkedIn in a while, um, I just saw in the comments Clay is another one. If you're using Clay, I definitely advise that.

But, um, I haven't used Clay too often. I've been, you know, um, little, you know, touch and go with that. Sure. But it's a really solid platform and I hear a lot of, you know, good people talking about really great things about it. So I'd advise Clay as well. But, um, yeah, ultimately I think that you need to be reaching out to the right people and obviously know if it's the right time and timing is everything, right?

So if you can align those two things, you put yourself in a really good position to build rapport with people and [00:40:00] have a deeper conversation, potentially close a deal. 

Peter Ahn: Yeah. The, the signal base outreach is, is really important. Like, and it looks like Bird Dog does some of that, or. A lot of it. Um, common room is another one as well that does that, that like looks at triggers because at any given point in time, only 10% of your ICP is actually ready to buy, right?

So think about that. 90% of the people you're reaching out to who you consider is your ideal customer, they're not ready to buy. So these signals are, are definitely important, I think, keep in mind totally. The other thing, sorry, before we go onto the last three questions, the other thing that you're doing, like I think really well and artfully is you're building a personal brand on LinkedIn.

I was joking for the audience. Um, when I actually, not joking. This is actually accurate. I think when Mason and I first met, like last December, he was at like. 5,000 followers on LinkedIn and obviously that one post where he's sharing up on strategies did him really well. But today he's like almost at 11,000 followers [00:41:00] and his content's really authentic and genuine.

So I would like definitely. Encourage you all to look at his profile to how he's actually stacking up these posts. Um, because I think that also has a big part to play in helping people gain trust in, in Mason, right? So do you agree with that, Mason? Have you seen that work too? 

Mason Fuerst: Wholeheartedly, because I think that you need to be a, you need to be someone who's trustworthy at the end of the day, much like what we've talked about.

And the posts and content that you're sharing obviously are in part with that. And so obviously cold outreach is important. You know, secondarily, like if you're posting a lot of content in relation to what you're doing, or more or less just giving value to the community, then you come across as someone who's trustworthy and obviously is a leader in the space.

Right. Just a thought leader in general. So what I tend to do is I try to give more than I get, right? And I try to give a lot of value in terms of the posts that I am sharing. 

Love that. 

Mason Fuerst: But as a founder, I also think it's important that you're [00:42:00] still remaining authentic. You're still sharing the stories along the way.

You know, the failures, the successes, the things that you've seen and done. I think that people want that genuineness no different than this call. Like this call is not scripted. Kind of just having conversation off the cuff here, which is, I think people resonate with wholeheartedly, but with your posts, what I would advise you do, you know, and a lot of people will say like, I don't know what to post.

What I would do is I'd keep like a daily journal of things that you've done within your day. Things that you've accomplished, things that you failed at, things that you learned, and then ultimately what you can do is you can start creating posts from that. 

Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: You know, you had a call with a sales prospect that maybe didn't go well and you learn something from it, share that.

Or maybe something went really well. Share that, you know, those certain things, you know, you can create this real good pipeline of content and then sprinkle in different things that you're doing with your product along the way. So I would advise people, I would say, you know, share more with [00:43:00] people that they can at least get value from.

And then sprinkle in a little bit of different things that you're doing with your product along the way. Maybe it be updates. Features, right? Maybe you raised around those certain things will obviously be really good at getting people's attention and potentially getting on a call. But like I said, at the end of the day, the more that you can give to your community, the more that they're going to get.

You know, you're gonna get in value and return, so. Much like cold outreach. Do the same thing with your posts and your content. Yeah, 

Peter Ahn: I love that. Um, and you know, LinkedIn is kind of a giant digital billboard. Like so many people are active on it and they're scrolling through their LinkedIn feed, right? So the more that you show up, the more top of mind you are.

And the other thing you said that I really resonate with is just repurpose what you're already doing. If you're already having conversations with prospects, share a little bit about what you learn. Right. Um, if you're already talking to customers, see if they're open with taking a 15 second clip of something groundbreaking that they said [00:44:00] about your product, and then you repost that, right?

So I think there's ways that you could kill two birds with one stone. Um, Chang Kim has a question here. We could both answer this actually, but, um, he's asking about. How important are in-person meetings for sales, right? Because obviously, like the outbound approach is right now what we're talking about is heavily digital.

Um, but what is your experience with that? Have you met your prospects in person, your customers in person yet, or like are you, are you planning to, do you wanna talk about that a little bit before I opine on the subject matter? 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, I have met, I, I have met a couple of 'em in person, which I think is always a really good conversation.

I think that anytime that you can meet your customers in person, do it. 

Yeah. 

Mason Fuerst: Because the trust factor just gets, it goes up by 10 x when you meet people in person because they're able to really put a face to a name and you can really start diving into the details and you can walk them through your pro platform or your product really in person, get them set up.

You know, what I really love to do is I love to. [00:45:00] Have them take me a tour through the facility, really allow me to just kind of be a fly on the wall and learn and understand what they're doing and even kind of see the processes that they're obviously entrenched in on a day to day. Yeah. And then really help walk them through as well as their team, how to get set up in the product, how to use it.

You can answer any questions there. And then what you end up doing is you can really expedite the process of getting people to not only be using your product, but also being able to have them just start running with it as soon as possible. So I think that anytime you have the ability to meet your prospects in person and potential customers do it.

And I've heard fonder stories as well, where they've been in the process of closing a. Big deal and just taking the time to fly out or drive somewhere or meet your prospects and customers in person has really made the deal. Of them actually moving forward or not moving forward. So, 

yeah. 

Mason Fuerst: Um, yeah, I think it's a really great question.[00:46:00]

Obviously, you know, if you have to meet via Zoom or via Google meets, that's perfectly fine as well. But if you have the opportunity and the ability meet your customers in person, it goes so much further. 

Peter Ahn: It's well worth it, especially when you're closing like six, seven figure deals, right? And it's like similar to investing time in outbound, like investing time in person makes a huge difference to these.

Customers. I've had a lot of prospects say, Hey, it means a lot that you flew across the country just to see me. Right? And sometimes, you know, there's this question, you know how prospects or clients will always ask, so did you come out just to see me? And a lot of people will be like, no, I had like a few other meetings here, like, I'm busy with other stuff.

But in a lot of cases you should just be honest if it, if that is the main reason, right? Mm-hmm. I've seen the other answer be a lot more impactful, right? 'cause people are so busy justifying themselves, not being desperate that they forget that. Actually, no. If you say, yes, Mason, I flew out here for you. I do have a couple other meetings, but I wouldn't be out [00:47:00] here if it wasn't for you.

And the fact that we're about to close this deal. That could be like a deal closer right there. Right. You know, and like you said, like that has an emotional impact. Um, who doesn't want to feel special. Right. So yeah. Hopefully that answers I agree. Yeah. Hopefully that answers your question, Chang. Um. 

Mason Fuerst: I'll say, Peter, just if I could go on that a little bit.

Yeah, I think that that was one of the things that I resonated with most from your EO video is just the transparency. And I would advise any founder or anybody in sales to always be transparent with their prospects. Like I'll never forget, you know, our, my first customer, Kelsey, you know, she works for an industrial manufacturing company.

Um. She ended up asking U.S like, am I gonna be one of your guys' first customers? And I could have just said, you love that question. Um, you know, ultimately, you know, we, we are ha we do have a handful of customers, you know, we have been dealing with people and I think that people can just see that right off the kit.

Totally. If you're lying to them. And I was just fully transparent. I was [00:48:00] like, you know Kelsey, you are gonna be one of our first customers. We'd be more than happy to have you a part of our platform. You know, we love what you guys are doing and we obviously want to be a partner with you guys, meaning that as you're getting value from the product, we're continuing to add value back into the product to help you, your job, your team, your life.

And the cool thing is, is is that she actually told U.S, she's like, you know, I really like that because she's like, you know, I'm someone who breaks things. I like testing out products. I like kind of finding ways that they can be better, different edge in use cases. I love that. And you know, the cool thing is, is that when you're transparent with people, they'll be transparent back in return and say, you know, I love this.

I wanna do a deal. I actually had one of our first customers tell me that he wanted to do the deal more. He was gonna be one of our first customers. Ah, I love that. It's so 

Peter Ahn: true of innovators, right? It's so true. Totally. Yeah. Um, sorry, keep going. I, I just had to, you're giving me , goosebumps.

That's why, uh, [00:49:00] I'm so like proud that you're doing this, you know. 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah. And um, you know, I saw a question come into the comments like, how to, you know, find those innovator types. It's really tough. Mm-hmm. But I will say, I think that you can tell a lot. There's like telltale signs just from the conversation.

Usually innovators, they're gonna be more apt to have a conversation with you, you know, talk about your product. They're gonna be asking you questions. Those are all really good signs to know like, okay, you are on the right call with the right person. If they do end up doing a deal with you, they'll probably end up being an innovator.

You know, I had a guy that I got on a call with last week where he's a huge AI buff and we spent the first, I kid you not, out of the 30 minute call, we spent the first. 15 minutes just talking about him, his love for ai, things that he's doing. And after the 15 minutes, he's like, alright, enough about me.

Let, let's talk about the product. Would love to kind of dive into this. And, you know, the thing is, is that [00:50:00] the innovators, they, they tend to talk, you know, about things that they love. Things that they are interested in in regards to your product. They're asking you a bunch of questions and you may very well get deep into a call, but that's a good sign.

It means that they're really interested and they probably will end up moving forward if logically everything else makes sense. Totally. So. They're, they're a little bit hard to find. You do have to obviously, you know, reach out to people, but you should know and get those indicators as to whether or not they're actually gonna be a zealot, a champion, an innovator for you.

Yeah. 

Peter Ahn: And, and you know, I think you could see kind of on their LinkedIn profile, like what bets they've made, made in terms of startups, right? If they're talking about a company that's a series a company that they're really proud of, that's a good indicator. Um, it does take a lot of getting on that first call, and I love asking the question like, Hey, like.

Is your company culture set up to adopt a startup technology? Because we're only 10 people and you know, you're like, let's say even 2000 people, that's still a risk, right? You do have to take a [00:51:00] strategic bet on our technology. Are the executives, you know, set up for that? Is your culture set up for that? I love that question because then people will be like, wow, this is a very like touchy feely different.

Question. Um, but it's important, right? Because if the culture isn't, if the, if that company hasn't bought a startup tool and they're like only going after incumbents, it's probably a red flag I'd probably try and eject out of the deal. So hopefully that answers your question. I think a lot of it is a questions you ask on the first call, and don't be afraid to put them on the hot seat to say, Hey, like, are you even like down to tango with the five person company?

Right? 

Mason Fuerst: Totally. It's a back, it's a two-way relationship and you know, as much as you're trying to make sure that the prospect is the right person for you, you know, you also have to make sure that it's the right company for your startup. Totally. What I ended up realizing early on is that large enterprises, just in terms of the long sales cycles and the many decision [00:52:00] makers that they need to make, are not the best fit companies for, you know, my tool.

You know, ultimately it's those small businesses, those scaling startups that are a recruiting team of like three, five people that are just drowning in jobs that really need the tool that I offer to really help them. And any company that's over that in size is ultimately one that I really don't wanna do a deal with right now because it just doesn't fit my product.

And, um, 

yeah, 

Mason Fuerst: obviously where I can serve the most value. So, like you said, Peter. It's a constant vetting process. And if it's not the right company as in the right person too, then you obviously don't wanna spend a lot of time on that. Totally. 

Peter Ahn: Yeah. And I have no doubt you will have that customer that is larger, but then you're gonna be, um, I know, very skeptical initially and, and proceed with caution.

Right. And you're gonna really, they have to sell you as much as you're selling them, which is great. Um, awesome. Well, let's start to wrap this up. This has been amazing, Mason. Thank you first of all. And, and hopefully. For the audience. You all have been getting value out of this conversation. Um, this will be, as a [00:53:00] reminder, it's recorded, so you can always come back to this event page to see what the answers were and jump to them.

And like I said, please do reach out. I'll say this at the end too, but reach out to Mason or myself for the PDF where he walks through his outbound strategy. Um, I think it's, it's gold and you all should take advantage of it. Um, so, so the last couple questions. Um. Where do you get sales advice, Mason, right?

Because you've learned this, I think, like being authentic. I think it's in your DNA, but what are some other places that you would suggest, I promise this is not a leading question. I know you get advice from me, but, or maybe it is halfway, I'll be honest. Like it, it is like a leading question. 50%. But I'm also genuinely curious 'cause you know, obviously we've had our interactions, but, um, you're also student of the craft.

So where, where do you get sales advice? 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that first and foremost, you're the one that ends up changing my approach and just my philosophy around sales. So I will say I [00:54:00] do get a lot of sales advice from you, and I think that authenticity has really resonated. Um, but for me, I think what's important that I've understood is, is that dependent upon what you're doing is really dependent upon where you get sales advice from.

And so, like for me, because I'm an early stage founder, I tend to look at other. Founders that are now at the series A, series B level, and what sales advice that they've had, because they've obviously moved beyond the stage that I'm at, have been successful and probably was, you know, pretty successful themselves at closing the first deals and getting those customers.

Um. So what I tend to do is I, I tend to look at a lot of advice, you know, through Y Combinator. They have a lot of good resources mm-hmm. As well. Mm-hmm. And there's some other founders that I follow that also post a lot about sales. Amanda Zoo, she's the founder of Recall ai. Um, she posts a lot about sales.

Very much resonates with me, but obviously I'm in the startup space and I'm in tech specifically. So you know, those are specific resources that [00:55:00] I leverage or other founders that are in a similar space or the YC community where you know that their track records there, but they've also been successful. I.

Beyond your stage to the point where, yeah, you wanna listen, but listening to the right people is always very difficult. And so I think that the sources where you're getting information from are just as important as actually consuming those sources. 

Peter Ahn: That's a great point. There's a lot of noise. But I love what you said.

There are a lot of founders posting about sales, which I love. I feel like that wasn't the case, even like. Four or five years ago. So I think learning from your peer group is, is super important. And, and thank you for continuing to follow me seriously, it's been amazing to maintain this relationship and I'm learning a lot from you as well as you can tell.

Um, well, we had one more last minute question that David Kim put and I want to make sure we answer that as well. So even beyond sales, like what are the AI tools that you're using? We already talked about Clay Apollo. Um, instantly somebody mentioned common room. Dog. I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

Um, but any other AI [00:56:00] tools that, or maybe like one or two that you think are really interesting just from like a day-to-day perspective, even outside of sales? Yeah. 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah. I think that with my meetings I tend to use Fathom. Mm. Which is another y combination. Company as well, and they take meeting notes on, you know, all of my calls that I'm on.

And I think what's important when you do sales is that you're able to reflect on the things that you've done, whether good or bad. And so what I tend to do is before any one of my calls, I'll usually do prep to prepare and really understand. Okay. Am I gonna be asking the right questions that lead to the right answers, but then after the call, I'll really do a deconstruction as to the answers that I got from the prospect.

You know, do they really have my problem? You know, ultimately, you know, could I have been asking better questions? I think what's important is that you're always learning from yourself, and I think that meeting notes allows you to really reflect on those calls. Replay them. Watch them focus on your body language.

Focus on how you're asking questions. I think the [00:57:00] tonality and facial expressions are almost just as important as the words that people say, and that obviously is two-way in that we're obviously the customer's looking at you, but you wanna also read the customer and see like, are they resonating with something that I'm showing them?

Maybe, maybe not. And then just being very simple in the way that you're explaining things, I think is important as well. But meeting notes has been a game changer for me. 

Mm-hmm. 

Mason Fuerst: That way I can constantly improve and have that compound over time. 

Peter Ahn: Love that. Yeah, they, they have like kind of the pre-call setup, right?

Where they do research on your prospects too, I think, I don't know if Fathom does that, but Yeah. Call recording also, like record your calls. Like you, you really should record all your calls in this day and age. I know if you're in regulated industries, there might be a little bit of squeamishness around it, but I think prospects are used to it.

You just have to ask them as a call is getting started. 'cause it's really, really helpful. Like for a coach like me too, just like deconstruct Okay, what's going well and, and what needs improvement. Um, well Mason, again, [00:58:00] this is super awesome. I really appreciate the conversation. Um, this was way above my.

Expectations, expectations. And I had high expectations for this. Uh, so really appreciate you spending time. Thank you again for, for all the time and knowledge that you dropped in this call. Um, again, I'm gonna remind everyone, please reach out to Mason. He has a post, was it a month and a half ago or two months ago?

It was right? 

Mason Fuerst: Yeah, it was a month ago, and it got like, I think, 1400 comments. I woke up the next day with like 600 plus, uh, connection requests. Crazy. And I was like, wow. This is more than I ever expected it would. But if you do wanna get access to the PDF, please feel free to connect with me. I will share with you the PDF.

It really kind of talks about everything that we've discussed today, plus maybe some other things that we forgot to mention. Um, but ultimately at the end of the day, I just hope that you guys got some value from this and can obviously have it be applicable to whatever you're doing on a day-to-day with sales.

I definitely know that. I'm still learning. I am no expert by any means, [00:59:00] but you know, I'm still learning in this process and, you know, hopefully I can give you guys some stuff too that I. Helps add to your tool bench. 

Peter Ahn: Amazing. Well, you're doing just fine. And, and like I said, like I've been smiling a lot of this call 'cause I think you're really embodying the authentic sales approach.

So again, appreciate all your support Mason. ,. If you all enjoyed this, give U.S a thumbs up. We might do, you know, another flavor of this maybe in a few months 

Awesome. Thanks Peter.